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SlickRick51586 · #1 04-19-2007, 07:24 AM

What HDTV should I get?

I’m leaning towards plasma because I watch a lot of movies. The reason being plasma can output more realistic color/ blacks.

I war looking at a few TV’s; I will post the links up for you with what I feel are pros/cons feel free to add your opinion but keep in mind what I’m looking for might not be what you necessarily think is the best solution.

I want to spend 2,000 us dollars or less.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1142293092238

Hitachi Ultravision 42” 42HDS69

Pro: 1080i, realistic color (not overly vibrant like some plasma TVs can be).

Cons: I kind of like some of the plasmas that have those bright colors. The TV has 1080i but still only has 1024 horizontal.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1169512781854

Hitachi 50” flat panel Plasma HDTV P50H401

Pro: similar to above, has more horizontal resolution.

Con: I personally think the colors look better on the 42” versus this one.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1169512522199

Samsung 42” flat panel plasma HDTV HP- T4254

Haven’t really looked at this one to make u judgment but looks good.

The other two I don’t know much about:

Pioneer: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1142299475741

Panasonic: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1169512771844

Callmege · #2 04-19-2007, 02:01 PM

The biggest advantage plasma has over LCD is contrast ratio. The contrast ratio is the comparison between the brightest white the tv can display and the darkest black. And decent LCD should have a contrast ration of between 500:1 and 1000:1 with anything below 500:1 sucking and anything over 1000:1 being superb. A good Plasma can reach 5000:1.

The biggest advantage LCD has over plasma is that plasma costs a butt load but LCD is relatively cheap these days.

I just bought me this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...9240&rd=1&rd=1

Which despite being no name is actually amazingly good for the price I got it for. The disadvantage I was at was that I had very special requirements. I wanted 26" otherwise it would be too big and too expensive. I wanted it to be 720p. I wanted at least 1xHDMI, 1xComponent, 1xSCART and 1xVGA so that I could connect my PC, 360 and PS3 up to it at the same time and later when I get a Wii have room for that too.

For a long time I was looking at this instead but I reckon what I got was better:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HITACHI-26-IPS...QQcmdZViewItem

As for you, none are actually HD standard and will only play movies at 800x600 resolution which is Standard Definition.

SlickRick51586 · #3 04-19-2007, 04:08 PM

Not HD? Are you referring to the resolution?

All the HDTV's I have seen rate their resolution as 4:3, but are 16:9.

So, I'm at a loss, what's the deal?

I'm sure those TV’s still display it at a descent Quality or people wouldn't buy them.

That and 1024 x 768 is the same aspect ratio as 800 x 600. I think you’re confused about how scaling works as it is particular to the television.

That and people say resolution is the 4th or 5th thing you notice. Contrast ratio and color being the first two as far as picture quality is concerned.

I understand your saying the native resolution isn't true HD, however very few TV's are true HD, Even LCD's usually aren't. The two TV's you posted aren't even true HD.

It's a modern myth almost all HD TV under 4,000 aren't HD resolution they are scaled to their native resolution. What you’re buying is a good scaler which Plasmas tend to have better versions of.

That and I say that I’m looking for plasma in my original post; I think you kind of missed the entire point of my post.

Callmege · #4 04-19-2007, 05:50 PM

Out of all of the ones you listed I wouldn't buy any of them and I wouldn't buy a tv without it telling me the resolution could handle one of the HD standards and none of those do.

My other point was that there is little point buying a plasma at the moment unless you literally have money to burn.

SlickRick51586 · #5 04-19-2007, 07:01 PM

Not true and I would have to say you don't know what you’re talking about.

Plasmas and LCD TV's are relatively similar in price now.

I'm going to show you something and maybe enlighten you a little.

These are the True HDTV source resolutions (from your blue ray player or DTV)

1080p 1,920x1,080
1080i 1,920x1,080
720p 1,280x720
480p 852x480

These are the HDTV Display resolutions:
1,920x1,080 1080p
1,366x768 768p
1,280x720 720p
1,024x768 HDTV plasma
852x480 EDTV
640x480 VGA

Fixed-pixel displays follow a few basic rules:

No matter the resolution of the source material, whether VHS, DVD, or HDTV, a fixed-pixel display will always convert, or scale, it to fit its native resolution.
If the incoming source has more pixels than the display's native resolution, you will lose some visible detail and sharpness, though often what you're left with still looks great.
If the incoming source has fewer pixels than the native resolution, you're not getting any extra sharpness from the television's pixels. (CNET)

And this is for Projectors but still applies:

Native resolution is the number of pixels actually available on the display. So an SVGA projector, for example, has display panels or chips with a native 800x600 pixel matrix. In order to display a 16:9 signal, it uses an active area of 800x450 on the display. So any HDTV signal that it gets, whether it is 1280x720 or 1920x1080, it must reformat (compress) that incoming signal into 800x450 before feeding it to its internal display. So no matter what, it cannot display any HDTV signal without compressing it, and losing a bit of image detail in the process.

This is true of standard XGA resolution projectors as well. They have a native resolution of 1024x768. In order to display a 16:9 image, they use an active portion of their display that is 1024x576, which is a 16:9 matrix. Therefore the HDTV signals, whether 1920x1080 or 1280x720, must be compressed to fit into a 1024x576 matrix before they are displayed. (Projector Central.com)

So everything Scales, and obviously you don't know what you’re talking about.

The resolution of both TVs you posted is:
1366 x 768

This fits under 768p, which is also not a true HDTV source format. An LCD display is a fixed pixel display. This means that when you play videos in 720p it is scaled to your screen the same thing that happens with a plasma.

That and the two TV's you listed have pretty bad contrast ratios. If you have the time read this article: http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messa...79/284986.html

Basically as long as the resolution is descent its contrast ratio, color reproduction, and how well you’re scaling is accomplished that makes a difference.

BTW I thoroughly thank you for derailing my post and mouthing off about saying how LCD's are so much better when your watching TV on something ghetto rigged and sold on ebay with a 800:1 contrast ratio with shabby blacks.

CNET http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5137915-1.html
Projector Central.com http://www.projectorcentral.com/true_hdtv.htm

Callmege · #6 04-19-2007, 09:48 PM

Whoa someone is taking offense for no reason. I didn't bad mouth you or derail your post in any way...you did a pretty good job of derailing it yourself there buddy.

Not only that, you proved exactly what I was saying: none of the tvs you linked to are HD.

You see a native resolution of 1024x1080 in the first link will give you a shitty square screen and letterboxing when you watch widescreen movies. It will also have to scale down a film to get the resolution correct meaning a drop in picture quality. As a long time computer user and builder, I can tell you that anything that big with a resolution like that will look like ass even if it doesn't have to scale down but no thats ok you go ahead and buy something that uses a resolution that I was using on a 17 inch CRT monitor 10 years ago if it makes you feel happy.

The second is better with a resolution of 1280x1080 some kind of assmonkey hybrid of 1080 and 720 which again will look like a 50 year old hooker once everything has been scaled. Still it was nice of you to mention the "low" contrast ratio of the LCD (technology certainly not famed for having good native contrast ratios) but you phail simply because the first two you link to don't mention the contrast ratio which means it probably sucks pretty hard.

The third one you link to is probably the best of the 3 and has a very good contrast ratio. The native resolution still still lets it down though.

Still if you still want to buy one of those overpriced pieces of shit then so be it I can't stop you from wasting your money as after all it is YOUR money. I guess you probably felt big after knocking the TV I bought but I'd like you to point out a 26" TV that fits all my requirements and can be bought on the pitiful student loans we get here in the UK. Oh and you were wrong about the bad contrast ratio because almost all LCD tvs have contrast ratios that are far lower than Plasma tvs but utilise dynamic contrast to make up for that. As for it being Ghetto rigged, thats not quite how it works. It probably only costs maybe £20 to make the screen for a 60" Sony Bravia so the larger companies then sell the screens to no name companies who put it in a no name plastic shell. The technology inside is still the same as you would get in a high quality expensive TV it justs costs less. Unfortunately our society is based around buying things that have a certain combination of letters written on the because we perceive them to be of better quality: Sony, Nike, Coca-Cola etc.

Have fun being a materialistic paranoid pos and have a nice day

SlickRick51586 · #7 04-20-2007, 02:53 AM

You still don't understand it’s not going to letter box. It’s going to scale to the screen.

These aren't computer monitors they can display screen resolutions they don't natively support.

People rate 1024 x 768’s plasmas better than a lot of the LCD screens out there.
Read some CNET buying guides.

I don't know how else to explain it to you. Except to say: screen resolution isn't the only thing that makes a TV good. It’s the hardware that drives it and scales the image which is why I am saying your no-name TV is probably not as good as a name brand one. I would want to know what exact hardware is converting the image, and the piece of mind knowing that I have a warranty and my TV wasn't made in China with spare parts.

THE TV is 16:9 aspect ratio meaning it can't be a box, it’s a rectangle

This just means that the amount of pixels it has vertically and horizontally.

I have seen all these TV's in person I have a part time job at an electronics store.
We have a 1080p Signal hooked up to each TV. I can tell you that the Plasma TV's have just as good resolution quality and better color and contrast quality in most cases.

IMAGE SCALING ADAPTS THE INPUT SO THAT IT MATCHES THE NATIVE RESOLUTION WITH MINIMAL DISTORTON.

Someone else want to explain this to him?

ps read this:

I didn't mean this to turn into an arguement. You are right the resolution is going to be better on an LCD it's just my point is your not going to be able to notice.
I'm either gonna get a 42 lcd or look at a larger Plasma (gonna have to save up a while).

Callmege · #8 04-20-2007, 09:48 AM

Yeah but I could in theory scale scale a 1080i image onto my SD tv and it would look like ass. Same basic principle.

SlickRick51586 · #9 04-20-2007, 11:44 PM

It dosne't look like ass, I sit at work all day watching a 42 inch pioneer plasma next to a sony bravia LCD... They are both receiving the exact same hdtv signal. I would take the pioneer over the bravia any day.

This isn't getting anywhere sorry i even brouht this shit up.

ninhydrin · #10 04-21-2007, 09:49 PM

I have a 42" hitachi and the picture stinks, I play my games on my 19" CRT and the quality is superb, not sure the hitachis model number but it was bought last xmas so some of the newer models may be better, but I will never buy another, I would say the samsung would be better as they have good contrast ratios, Im sure you know what these are but if not its blacker the black whiter the white higher the ratio better the picture.

SAMSUNG all the way baby

cnbuck · #11 05-07-2007, 04:31 PM

Hi all. I hope this thread isn't dead due to excessive bickering because I'm also in the market for a 42" plasma. They have about the best price/performance/size at the moment. I've seen the Samsung HP-T4254 on Amazon for <$1300 including shipping. I was impressed with both this unit and the Panasonic TH-42PX75U when I browsed Best Buy the other day. Both needed some adjusting, however, as they looked pretty garish on vivid.

One thing I have learned about the PS3 (I hope this is corrected via firmware update) is that it doesn't output Blu-ray movies to 720p (only 1080p, 1080i, 480p, 480i). Instead, for a 1024x768 display, it outputs 1080i and then scales to fit. Additionally, it doesn't support 1024x768 (42" plasma's most prevalent resolution) but rather only 1920x1080 and 1280x720 and, of course, the non-HD resolutions. Both of these issues are probably minor. I'd be coming from a SD 27" CRT, so 1080i-output movies with some scaling and overscan would still look phenomenal. I still think I'd take the 42" plasma's superior price point and picture quality (albeit with a little overscan) over LCD's higher price (in this size), poorer blacks, and slower refresh rate.

SlickRick51586 · #12 05-09-2007, 06:39 PM

I pretty much decided on a 52inch sharp aquos LCD or the 50 pioneer Plasma (not the elite)

the 50 inch plasma supports 720p native resolution.
the 52 LCD has 1080p native.

Honestly the Plasma looks better though.

JasonSmithy · #13 05-09-2007, 08:12 PM

i'll tell you what. don't post links to tv's that aint' HD.......

also just go to the shop, store w/e and see for yourself what tv you want. your not going to make up your mind looking at pictures. unless you see the actual tv then its almost impossible to choose.........

oh and one more thing. go for a samsung because thats what i'm saving up for and it's like one of the best, if not the best HDTV's out atm...........i curently have a 19'' HDTV (see setup pics w/e) and its doing the job great atm. do not...and i repeat do not go for plasma because you will be soooooo dissapointed when you actually how shit they really are......seriously

Dave-ex · #14 05-10-2007, 01:08 AM

Samsung LNT4061, check it out thats what iam getting its LCD, 40inch screen, full 1080p, game mode, $2300, 3 HDMI inputs and alot of other features.

SlickRick51586 · #15 05-12-2007, 11:29 PM

All the tv's I posted support HD input....

People tend to forget that regardless of the native resolution the TV's decoding hardware has a lot to do with image quality.

I doubt non-branded tvs are HDCP compliant.

I work at Bestbuy.... I look at those two TV's everyday as I save up to buy one. I'm going to buy an LCD; I still think the Plasma looks better. They have been on for about 28,000 hours too, which is near the plasma's half-life.

Callmege · #16 05-13-2007, 11:48 AM

It all depends on the quality of the Screen rather than the outer casing though Rick. Mine has an LG/Phillips screen so I imagined it to be of good quality. Now that I've been using it for a couple of weeks, I can see that I was right. It is of superb quality.

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