PS3 Forum - Playstation 3 Forums

tehXdrk · #26 02-01-2008, 04:54 PM

Touche!! Lol. This is kinda amusing.

*Pat on the back for Diablo*

jknowledge84 · #27 02-02-2008, 08:05 AM

its off the subject, but vanguard is a pretty decent game if the population wasn't completely vacant.

mikey · #28 02-02-2008, 12:35 PM

DannyBoii, dont try and correct me. I have been following the game since it was announced. And yes the ps3 version has been blamed for the delay. Obviously the 360 was encountering technical issues too, but the delay was mostly down to the ps3. It was behind in development why do you think nothing has been shown of the ps3 to date? We should be expecting a look at the ps3 version this month. Grammar is your friend. Your posts are seriously hard to read.

p.s Dont get me wrong, I'm not supporting the 360 i hate the console.

Diablo · #29 02-02-2008, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jknowledge84

its off the subject, but vanguard is a pretty decent game if the population wasn't completely vacant.

That was the reason I quit. I got an Orc Barbarian (I think...was like a year ago so I may be wrong..it certainly was an orc something beginning with "b") to level 5 and didn't see a single other player. I've never had that experience in any other mmo from Lineage 2 to Guild Wars.

DannyBoii · #30 02-02-2008, 08:51 PM

So being a gamer you know about cache and storage of textures while the game is running. this would need a hard drive yes ? xbox core does not have any of the sort and will have to store them where ? on ram ... dought that there will be a HUGE diffrence between the 2 games just wait....

DannyBoii · #31 02-02-2008, 09:12 PM

Unlike you, I'm going to source myself:
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3154462
http://www.ripten.com/2008/01/27/roc...neck-and-neck/
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/50459
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160380

these are all the links you gave me its very strange that the 1up tell you specific bits what vice pres said ..

one peice he said was

On PS3 you've got a guarantee that every machine is going to have a hard-drive and, with Blu-ray, you've got plenty of storage, whereas on Xbox 360 there's no guarantee of a hard-drive and you're working with the DVD format. Does that create limitations?" His answer? "Yep."

limitations?" His answer? "Yep."

Hard drive storage of cache (Textures)

Limitation means that things will have to be cut... made smaller they can only work up to 9gb. so he sez...

Diablo · #32 02-02-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DannyBoii

So being a gamer you know about cache and storage of textures while the game is running. this would need a hard drive yes ? xbox core does not have any of the sort and will have to store them where ? on ram ... dought that there will be a HUGE diffrence between the 2 games just wait....

lol, you don't need a hard drive to cache data, how do you think all the previous consoles, except for the Xbox original and even the Wii caches files hmm? Ram. Now, 360 has better ram because its unified, it has a whole 512mb that can be used by anything. Its unlikely that GTA4 will be physics intensive, and I would be money on it not using state of the art AI either. If it did, it would ruin the "real life on speed" feeling that makes GTA so great. So that means the CPU wont need to be allocated much ram, leaving the lions share to the GPU. If 360 can handle graphics like gears of war, then its going to have no problem caching GTA4.

PS3 also has 512mb of ram but it isn't unified. The CPU has 256 and the GPU has 256. So if anything, PS3 probably HAS to use the hard drive, which on increases load times and lowers frame rates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DannyBoii

Unlike you, I'm going to source myself:
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3154462
http://www.ripten.com/2008/01/27/roc...neck-and-neck/
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/50459
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160380

these are all the links you gave me its very strange that the 1up tell you specific bits what vice pres said ..

one peice he said was

On PS3 you've got a guarantee that every machine is going to have a hard-drive and, with Blu-ray, you've got plenty of storage, whereas on Xbox 360 there's no guarantee of a hard-drive and you're working with the DVD format. Does that create limitations?" His answer? "Yep."

limitations?" His answer? "Yep."

Hard drive storage of cache (Textures)

Limitation means that things will have to be cut... made smaller they can only work up to 9gb. so he sez...

See above, ram.

DannyBoii · #33 02-02-2008, 10:36 PM

Ill continue this argument when hard facts are in place (April) but i guess you wont be around for me to brag

?

Diablo · #34 02-03-2008, 04:55 PM

You're right I wont be...but only because you wont be able to brag because you're wrong. Your complete lack of computer related knowledge proves this well enough.

mikey · #35 02-04-2008, 02:23 PM

Actually Callmege AI in GtaIV looks to be very impressive. In on of the previews a ped was seen pulling a anorak over themselves and running, then seconds later it began to rain, now that's pretty cool. Also another ped had broken down on a street and was looking under the hood. Nice touches.

Diablo · #36 02-04-2008, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey

Actually Callmege AI in GtaIV looks to be very impressive. In on of the previews a ped was seen pulling a anorak over themselves and running, then seconds later it began to rain, now that's pretty cool. Also another ped had broken down on a street and was looking under the hood. Nice touches.

Thats pretty basic though. The game decides to make it rain so it tells people to put on coats or get out an umbrella. That doesn't really compare to the AI in a game like CoD4 where enemies choose when is the best time to run from cover to cover or when to pop out and shoot at you.

mikey · #37 02-04-2008, 09:57 PM

I suppose, but its little touches like these which make the game appear much more alive.

Diablo · #38 02-05-2008, 06:28 AM

Of course, but it doesn't put much strain on the CPU or the ram. The ped isn't thinking, hes simply following a script.

-=*PS3-AnArKiSt*=- · #39 02-06-2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo

lol, you don't need a hard drive to cache data, how do you think all the previous consoles, except for the Xbox original and even the Wii caches files hmm? Ram. Now, 360 has better ram because its unified, it has a whole 512mb that can be used by anything. Its unlikely that GTA4 will be physics intensive, and I would be money on it not using state of the art AI either. If it did, it would ruin the "real life on speed" feeling that makes GTA so great. So that means the CPU wont need to be allocated much ram, leaving the lions share to the GPU. If 360 can handle graphics like gears of war, then its going to have no problem caching GTA4.

PS3 also has 512mb of ram but it isn't unified. The CPU has 256 and the GPU has 256. So if anything, PS3 probably HAS to use the hard drive, which on increases load times and lowers frame rates.

See above, ram.

Sorry, but you're mistaken! First I would like to correct the Total Bandwidth inaccuracies along with exposing the actual specs of the PS3. The Samsung GDDR3 is 256MG yes, but everyone has been going by bogus figures from a board back in 2005 (or something). That being, that total bandwidth for the GDDR3 was 22.6 with 128bit bus! Wrong!

We have 8x32bit for 256bit rate total on 60gig PS3 4x64MB = Total 256MB. With Bandwidth of 7.2GB/s per Module x4 = Total Bandwidth of 28.8GB/s at 700MHz. This is according to Samsung Specs for the GDDR3 Memory Modules actually in the PS3!

Now here's an interesting point. No Nvidia part (GPU) has an XDR interface, which means the RSX is a Totally Custom Part and why it took Nvidia and Sony 4yrs to develop it!

According to Rambus, FLEX Interface must span the full sum of interfaced parts with a Rambus Interface integrated into every chips design that it touches. On top of this, RSX must have an extremely wide Interconnect bus to accommodate that XDR Memory that is flying in and out at 4.5 times the Speed of the GDDR at 700MHz (XDR= 3.2GHz). RSX must also have some kind of advanced Cross Link interface for memory access available from both the GDDR3 and the Super Wide, Super Fast XDR Memory!

So at this point we must assume that the RSX has the same kind of Ultra Wide internal interconnect bus, as does Cell to interface with Total Bandwidth over Internal FLEX Interface Span (EIB) . Which is 25GB/s write to Cell and XDR Memory (which is Dual Channel Dual Controller (triple frequency capable) over those two Channels! Available XDR read is of at least 15GB/s (FLEXiBLE and programmable) back to RSX. Meaning RSX has a Hybrid Memory Interface!

Total XDR Memory Bandwidth available to RSX = 35GB/s at 3.2GHz
(when was the last time anyone's seen a G70 GPU with a XDR Memory Interface?

"Only on PS3"? G70???

Total Aggregate Memory Bandwidth available including both GDDR3 and XDR = 63.8GB/s

Developers are reporting that it's cheaper (in resources) to use the XDR not just because it runs at 3.2GHz which is 4.5 times faster than GDDR3 memory, but allows post processing of some of that 25GB/s RSX Write to XDR to RETURN via Cell's remaining RSX Read Bandwidth of the Remaining 25GB/s over the Main FLEXiO Bus. This is exactly the what Developer's of Killzone 2 are using with their Deffered Rendering Methods!

On the other hand Xenos has Unified Memory of 512 MB of 700 Mhz GDDR3 VRAM on a 128-bit bus. So Xenon incurs a latency penalty, because it's a skinny 128bit bus access through Xenos.

People in the past have erringly pinned a penalty on PS3's XDR Memory. But when you are passing containerized data from over the FLEXiO through a 204GB/s EIB (Rambus part), with a Dual Channel, Dual Controller Rambus FLEX interface (FLEXiO/EIB/MFC/XiO/FLEXPHASE) at 3.2GHz, where's the latency going to occur? ...and most of all, if it does what kind of penalty can it be to overwhelm the benefits of it's Speed?

FLEX Bus Interface System is the Fastest on the Planet!

Here's a video and link from the Rambus site that details their system on the PS3!!!

http://www.youtube.com/v/8Ek5NFGnF7A&rel=1

http://www.rambus.com/us/news/press_...06/061130.html

Conclusions are obvious: Microsoft's Xbox 360 Total reported Bandwidth is full of "HYPERBOLE", when it includes not only the 22.6GB/s (shared with Xenon), but the Bandwidth between eDRAM to the Xenos main chip. The reason this Bandwidth cannot reasonably be included in Bandwidth Totals is that it is merely an off chip version of chip Cache, that should be better considered as part of Xenos's internal Bandwidth System.

On the PS3's Rambus Memory Architecture is a far Faster, more Efficient and Effective Working design concept. In the Future, coupled with the entire system being of a progressively programmable nature allows the systems to be opened up by it's Application Programmers to it's step-able UPGRADABILITY futher prolonging it's LIFE SPAN to it's projected 10yr road map!

On the Rambus site you can learn more about the XDR Memory Module's progressively programmable upgradeability on it's spec sheet (not that it is physically capable of capacity upgrade, but by raising clock speed it becomes more efficient with higher effective Bandwidth Capacity).

There is only one model of XDR Memory available from the various suppliers such as Elpida and Samsung that fits the PS3 spec. It is capable of three different frequencies. Isn't it logical to think that the Cell with XiO Dual Controller, Dual Channel Bus interfaced to it's two banks of memory (that are triple frequency capable) could be clocked separately at one of these clocks? Here's the Elpida US part info from 60gig PS3:

* Highest pin bandwidth available
4800/4000/3200 Mb/s Octal Data Rate (ODR) Signaling
o Bi-directional differential RSL (DRSL)
- Flexible read/write bandwidth allocation
- Minimum pin count
o On-chip termination
- Adaptive impedance matching
- Reduced system cost and routing complexity
* Highest sustained bandwidth per DRAM device
o 9600/8000/6400 MB/s sustained data rate
o Eight banks: bank-interleaved transactions at full bandwidth
o Dynamic request scheduling
o Early-read-after-write support for maximum efficiency
o Zero overhead refresh
* Dynamic width control
o EDX5116ADSE supports x16, x8 and x4 mode

It seems that the full power of the PS3 lies in the hands of it's programmers. With a version of the the Cell SDK, coupled with a system of sensors, IBM's eFUSE (embedded element fuses), and the XCG Clock generator the memory clock can be programmably upgraded to one of three Sustained Data Rates, with the Dual Channel Controlled FLEXPHASE Memory Bus, of :
*38.4GB/s*, *32GB/s* and *25.6GB/s*

The PS3's Cell Processor Clock is also Upgradeable via the Programmers Application Resource Requirements and the ever growing awareness the entire Playstation 3 Platform!

So if there are HATERS in this Forum or elsewhere on the Web, run this by them along with these links that seem to prove what I'm saying is true here:

What in the World? 4GHz

http://www.box.net/shared/static/iq2n88xwgs.gif

The German Web Site seems to be saying PS3 was running F@H Application at 4GHz!!!

http://www.box.net/shared/static/k94x9rvkkw.jpg

Notice here that the PS3 seems to be going Wii......right on up to it's FMAX (Frequency Max) of 4.8GH/z!

http://www.box.net/shared/static/4i9939b0gg.jpg

In the end, as Programmers get a handle on this unique PS3 Platform, things will always get progressively better!

Note: @Diablo
Although the PS3 is the only one of these console platforms that Programmers can actually cache data in Virtual Memory to the HDD, does not mean it actually has to. As we have witnessed with both R & C and Uncharted. If you notice, both of these game have seamless Cut Scene to Game Play with literally no load time beyond the initial loading of the Game! It's seems they both got a handle on using the massive streaming abilities of the PS3 in utilizing Procedural Texture and Animation Techniques running in REAL TIME. Including some 4D animations with Drake getting wet and drying off. Forest animations using SpeedTree RT are no longer looped. But respond to the environment of Wind Swirls, Storm Rain splashing in Real Time Physics on the FLY!

Diablo · #40 02-07-2008, 07:26 AM

Congratulations on missing my point entirely, and phail on copy pasta.

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